Episode 19: Digital Commons – Building Academic Community in Virtual Space

00:00:13: Hello and welcome to our new episode from Campus to Saga about digital commons, building academic, community and virtual spaces.

00:00:22: I'm Professor Dr.

00:00:23: Mike Fritizen and in today's episode we are diving into one of the most essential and often overlooked challenges of digital higher education.

00:00:34: Communication in the virtual space.

00:00:36: At a traditional university so much of the students experience happens outside the classroom.

00:00:42: Whether it's bumping into classmates in the hallway, chatting over coffee, or pulling an all-nighter together in the library.

00:00:51: But in a virtual university where students may never share the same time soon, let alone the same space.

00:00:58: How do we recreate those spontaneous moments and build a real community?

00:01:03: Our guest today is someone

00:01:05: who

00:01:05: has thought deeply.

00:01:07: and empirically about exactly this.

00:01:10: I'm thrilled to be joined by Professor Dr.

00:01:13: Julia von Tien, an expert in digital education and learning cultures at the German University of Digital Science, and one of my excellent colleagues here at the university.

00:01:23: She's been reaching about how we can use tools,

00:01:26: structure,

00:01:27: and culture to foster communication and community in the cloud.

00:01:31: Today, we'll talk about why the first two weeks at the Wehrtahl University matter more than ever what kinds of communication tools really work, how to navigate cultural differences, and what it takes to create authentic scientific communities in online spaces.

00:01:49: Let's dive in before we start.

00:01:51: Please Julia, introduce yourself.

00:01:53: Hello everybody and many thanks for having me here.

00:01:56: So my name is Julia Fontinen and my research spans two domains.

00:02:01: So one is design thinking research and the other is neuro design.

00:02:05: And design thinking research is the science of innovation, creativity and collaboration.

00:02:11: And then neuro-design adds attention to physiological factors such as brain activity or heart rate in the study of innovation and, for instance, human technology interaction.

00:02:21: And that also involves drawing inspiration from biological systems when designing new technologies, either for people or also in a sustainable, planet-centered way.

00:02:32: And personally, I like to delve into psychological and also neuroscientific research to inform the design of technology.

00:02:40: And our research group often studies current technologies and then explores ways to redesign them, even radically redesign them, thinking ahead, sometimes far into the future, to stage innovative solutions aiming for different and hopefully better impact.

00:02:57: So Julia, but you are a professor at the German Uliath, right?

00:03:00: What's the name of your professorship?

00:03:03: Design thinking, research and neuro design.

00:03:06: Yeah, let's start, Julio, with the big picture.

00:03:09: So when most people imagine university life, they picture buzzing lecture halls, late night study sessions in the library, or animated chats with friends at the campus café.

00:03:23: But at an online university, these classic scenes are reimagined.

00:03:29: Rather than replicating traditional form as a challenge, and opportunity is to create vibrant, authentic university experiences from sketch using digital tools and new practices.

00:03:42: So my question is Julia, but what does university life look like at an online university?

00:03:49: Maybe the challenges and also the opportunities.

00:03:52: And as you mentioned, I come from a research background, so I'd also like to feature that a little bit here in this context.

00:03:59: And as you mentioned, in a life setting, how people can meet in cafes, they can meet in the hallway and get into contact.

00:04:07: And then from the research perspectives, it's interesting to ask how can we actually measure the collaboration aspect, how close people come and if they actually get to exchange ideas and do something with it, work together.

00:04:22: metric that has been very useful in this regard is to track publications, for instance, and that can be scientific papers for the campuses, so for the scientific work, but for instance in company context this can also be releasing technical reports together.

00:04:40: And this is really super interesting what we see in these regards and it very much points to the opportunities that we can have in the online space.

00:04:51: So what we see when we study campus-based activities, then just increasing the distance between offices by a hundred feet reduces the chances that people collaborate together.

00:05:05: So physical proximity is really one of the key predictors of whether people get to collaborate or not.

00:05:12: And so that is the campus-based view.

00:05:15: But then we can also take a broader look, for instance, in Europe.

00:05:20: average distance between collaborators in science is two hundred and fifty kilometers.

00:05:26: So here again we see we have Europe we have this potential of cross-border collaboration and we know that different partners bring different perspectives and experiences and still the focus is on rather proximate partnerships.

00:05:41: And then let's move even further and look at the global scale.

00:05:45: There have been studies, for instance, looking into six different frontier scientific domains and seeing how far the authors of these papers are apart.

00:05:57: And interestingly, people who are within ten kilometers are so much more likely than, for instance, people who are ten thousand kilometers away.

00:06:07: indicating that on a global scale and across various scientific disciplines the physical location is still a major factor determining whether or not people collaborate actually and clearly.

00:06:20: now here we have this huge potential with online study that physical distance is just totally redefined and we know from innovation studies that it's actually very beneficial to collaborate with partners who are physically further away because typically they have different experiences, different cultural situations, different perspectives and that can really bring innovative new ideas into projects.

00:06:45: So for instance there's been one interesting study at Stanford where they built small teams and people would work in the teams but then occasionally they would redistribute team members and they chose persons who were very far from the social network, so rather persons from a different discipline, let's say, or just previously disconnected.

00:07:10: And that significantly improved the quality of creative solutions developed by these teams.

00:07:16: So it's really beneficial to bring in people from distant places.

00:07:20: And for instance, at German UDS, There is this virtual campus being designed that's called Cove and it has a dormitory.

00:07:29: Now just imagine the possibilities and we can all think of what we would want and find desirable.

00:07:36: There's also there may be a dormitory and just imagine what the impact might be when the students who have different rooms in that dormitory might be from different study programs or might be from geographically rather distant places.

00:07:50: originally and personally you can think about what you would expect but personally I would expect we see the same effects in the digital space that people collaborate more and meet more with the people who are physically close.

00:08:04: so for instance somebody in the dormitory room right next to you.

00:08:08: so that really offers a lot of potential opportunities.

00:08:12: So from this side, from this research background Julia, which is very interesting.

00:08:18: So digital platforms often foster creativity and innovation in a way that rigid physical settings.

00:08:24: So in which areas do online formats not only match but perhaps even surpass on-site work and education?

00:08:32: That's a good point and we indeed observe that quite pointedly.

00:08:36: So whenever it comes to Work tasks that are well defined and people understand them well, typically... online settings are really favorable and people perform better.

00:08:49: And one of the main reasons seems to be that people save commuting time.

00:08:53: It's a practical matter so people don't have to drive or travel as long and they invest the same time in work or learning and just get away more done.

00:09:03: And it's been found in studies across the world.

00:09:07: So in many, many countries it's a very consistent pattern that online workers are more productive because They just get more done.

00:09:16: Another factor is that there seem to be often less interruptions.

00:09:20: So in a usual office, people might knock on the door and have some requests, whereas it's easier to shut the door when you're at home, for instance, or you choose your own setting.

00:09:30: And then one domain that is particularly benefiting from online settings is actually creativity and innovation.

00:09:39: And of course, that's also something that interests us at German UDS quite a bit to explore innovative solutions rather than standard approaches.

00:09:48: And here there are several reasons why online is really super beneficial and it's also found in many studies and across countries.

00:09:58: So one thing is that You can choose your own location.

00:10:02: You can work from home, for instance, or you can be in a cafe or you can go into a park and then even sit on the grass, if you like.

00:10:10: And that contrasts to the typical environments where people would normally learn and work.

00:10:16: So school buildings, the traditional school buildings or conventional offices are actually known for many studies to inhibit and reduce creative thinking and innovation, whereas the spaces where people feel safe, like at home, They are super beneficial.

00:10:32: That's also why several companies, they make the offices look like living rooms, because that's where people perform best, particularly with regard to these innovative aspects of work.

00:10:44: And yeah, so that's one, but let me mention another, because that will also might be interesting to you, Mike.

00:10:52: I mean, you know that.

00:10:54: And that is that.

00:10:55: virtual worlds can be particularly beneficial.

00:10:58: And comparing on-site settings with the virtual worlds, often the virtual worlds really can boost creative performance and innovation.

00:11:09: And interestingly, there are also quite well-established design methods that help you to predict what kind of an effect you can achieve with an environment.

00:11:18: And of course, it's much cheaper to design a space virtually compared to real physical buildings, plus you have opportunities like creating avatars that float in the air and things like that, which would be just either impossible or not so easy in real life.

00:11:38: That's a very important point, Julia.

00:11:40: So I think in the future, we will just bring together all this different direction.

00:11:47: so our campus of virtual education with our EU projects we will talk about a little later and your experiences and this communication area.

00:11:59: so I think this is what might be interesting for the digital university at all finding new forms of virtuality and reality to bring together this those different worlds.

00:12:13: But at least as I just listened to you in some challenges of online education.

00:12:20: So however research shows that Zoom fatigue and the lack of spontaneous informal contact are real issues.

00:12:27: So the main limitations of online formats lies in community building, intuitive turn-taking and in developing deep shared excitements.

00:12:35: I'm like in person interaction.

00:12:37: virtual environments sometimes make it harder to sense group dynamics for the intuitive conversation flow and build a strong feeling of belonging.

00:12:46: so my question is what does research reveal main limitations of online formats.

00:12:52: Yes as you say online formats and we might add given the current state of.

00:12:58: technology development and usage because of course it hinges a lot on technology.

00:13:03: and when we look into the research here we see as you mentioned Zoom fatigue.

00:13:07: it's unfortunately real.

00:13:09: so there have been studies comparing lectures of fifty minute length that were in person versus online and the EEG activity clearly reflected that it was more taxing on people to do it remotely but it was fifty minute long just to bear in mind.

00:13:28: And then also what we see as you mentioned this community spirit aspect that is still different online versus in person.

00:13:36: And one interesting study for instance had people participate remotely in basketball watching versus on-site and in the on-site experience people not even sat next to each other but they had random places somewhere in the audience and then the heart rate patterns were being measured and also how people moved in contrast to control groups that watch the same matches but in front of a TV camera in small groups.

00:14:06: and what was evident is that the physiology and also confirmed by the question is just this being live in the event, it was just not matched by remote participation and people had much stronger alignment and this community spirit when being around really immersed in the live experience.

00:14:29: And then what we also see in studies repeatedly, and that has to do with the technology also, of course, is that when we meet in person, our turn taking can be more intuitive and quicker.

00:14:40: So we have much more changes between who is speaking, whereas when we connect online, then typically, especially in video calls, one person speaks longer and there is less of this quick, fast interaction.

00:14:56: And just to bear it in mind, it really also has to do with what our current technology does and supports.

00:15:05: And so for instance, the... Typical setting in video conferences, I mean video conferences are absolutely great and they enable things that we couldn't have otherwise currently in terms of remote contact and yet they Immobilize the user.

00:15:23: you can barely look to the left or right because only in the center is where things are happening Whereas when you meet life you could jointly look to the side and something is happening.

00:15:33: you can look around in a discussion.

00:15:37: Yeah, discussion format.

00:15:38: So yeah, we see room for improvement and further development regarding the technology.

00:15:47: Yeah, but that leads us to the promise of fully online education.

00:15:51: So in all my meetings and talks.

00:15:56: I was asked about the fully online education, how does it work, and especially for the German UDS as one of the first full digital universities that's an extremely challenge.

00:16:06: So despite its challenges, full online education has profound strength, of course.

00:16:11: It can be extremely inclusive and fair, of course, connecting people across distances and backgrounds.

00:16:18: Literary universities like the German UDS enable students who otherwise could not participate in both tasks, performance and encourage innovation.

00:16:27: Ultimately, one or online universities offer a chance to redesign academic life at all in ways that physical universities can't.

00:16:35: So my question, Julia, is in your view, why should we embrace fully online education?

00:16:41: What are the promises that we make and what makes it exciting and worth pursuing?

00:16:48: Yes, that's certainly a good topic to delve into and you've already provided very important keywords.

00:16:54: So as mentioned previously in the collaboration patterns, we see that people who are very nearby, they come together and they do something together.

00:17:02: And obviously, for instance, studying at a campus on site, you have to live.

00:17:09: nearby and we all know how difficult it can be, for instance, to relocate or to pay the rent in a certain area where it's expensive.

00:17:17: So this opportunity to stay where you are and then connect and as discussed previously, having all these varying perspectives that can be brought together by different cultural experiences, different, could also be national systems.

00:17:36: That's really a great, great chance.

00:17:39: And in terms of just the design approach, one thing to mention previously, we talked about Zoom fatigue.

00:17:46: that becomes prominent, for instance, when there are longer lectures, like, fifty minutes, or it could be even ninety minutes, then people tend to drow us away.

00:17:55: That's not how we do it at German UDS, but rather, for instance, there would be very nuggeted and concise inputs.

00:18:04: And so, that also enables professionals, for instance, who have a very busy schedule, who have a very busy schedule to take the time they have, can be five to fifteen minutes, focus on a topic intensively, and then at the next suitable moment do the next nugget of that.

00:18:24: So we also have to think about these formats, how topics are presented, because apparently these very long, draggy inputs are not what works.

00:18:33: best in the online format.

00:18:36: And also the use of media, that's, I mean, in my view, a very great potential that traditionally there is only one format.

00:18:47: That's the professor who stands in front of the lecture hall and then they give their speech.

00:18:53: Whereas in the online format, it's possible to have really huge, hugely diverse media formats.

00:18:59: So for instance, the same topic can be available as a lecture then maybe fifteen minutes long.

00:19:06: or you could download the slides and read them or you could have and I think that is to me personally it's a very important format also audio only where you can for instance sit on the balcony and really concentrate on what is being said or you can be in environments that really do you good and also you can take it on on a walk or you can use it on a train or in the bus which are also settings that have been researched and found to be very conductive to particularly innovative types of thinking so offering various media formats.

00:19:45: And students can choose what matches their situation, what matches their preferences.

00:19:49: That is one of the potentials that certainly we have.

00:19:53: Yeah, so you mentioned media use and so what is the next important point I think for.

00:20:02: a digital university and the communication is individual differences.

00:20:06: So does online work for everyone?

00:20:07: Research and practice show that digital learning environments are generally effective, so especially for adult and self-related learners.

00:20:15: So vulnerable students, however, may require additional attention since their needs and challenges are sometimes harder to detect remotely.

00:20:23: So my question is, does online education work for everyone or are there limitations?

00:20:29: That's a good point to bear in mind.

00:20:30: and of course German UDS is for adults primarily or generally and in that regard the data shows that it really is very effective across the board.

00:20:45: So generally that seems to be very well working and I think you also mentioned this group, learners who are rather self-regulated so they can plan ahead and then they do the tasks that they have planned to do.

00:21:01: For them, it works really well.

00:21:03: So maybe if we were talking about preschool children, for instance, or the results might be a bit different, but talking about adults, it's really very safe and yielding.

00:21:14: And just to bear in mind, then maybe special needs, as you mentioned, particularly those who may have less developed self-learning strategies that can be a little bit challenging.

00:21:27: So those who like to procrastinate, for instance, completing everything the last minute.

00:21:34: But of course, the study design can also help to cope with that, for instance, if it's structured in weeks and you can't procrastinate everything until the final week, but you actually have to make submissions every week that already supports.

00:21:49: Yeah, it balances.

00:21:51: Yeah, that sounds good.

00:21:53: And I know that there is one point for Julia.

00:21:56: That's the international comparison of the universe.

00:22:00: So we, as a fully online universe, are still rare.

00:22:03: But the pioneering model existing here in Europe, for example.

00:22:06: So particularly in this way, you discussed the unique approach of the German UDS.

00:22:12: And now I think you can compare it with some other projects like the DIVORB or DIVORIS and you are now responsible for both projects at the German UDS with a lot of work.

00:22:25: I know that.

00:22:27: Maybe you can just try to give us a little bit more examples about this communication always between universities and bringing together students from different countries and universities.

00:22:43: And you did some experience in those projects.

00:22:48: So Julia, what can you just explain?

00:22:52: Yes, as you mentioned, online education, it's rather new, but it's gaining traction also in Europe, but maybe just to reflect, it's still a rather new approach.

00:23:03: So also it's, to some extent, in exploratory stages.

00:23:07: So in Europe, not all countries permit fully online education, as quite a few countries still require on-site teaching.

00:23:15: And as you mentioned, we are partners in two EU funded projects.

00:23:20: One is digital for security, which is a circa twenty million quite big projects involving thirty seven partners, including thirty higher education institutions.

00:23:31: And here the focus is on master's level education and cybersecurity management and data sovereignty.

00:23:37: And the students benefit from experts across different countries and very national and sectorial cybersecurity approaches.

00:23:44: And then the Second project is digital for business.

00:23:48: Also, you funded involving thirteen partners and here the focus is on digital upskilling across industries.

00:23:55: And of course, all partners are renowned for their expertise in the topic area, which is why and how they've secured this funding in a highly competitive call.

00:24:05: And in this context, it seems noteworthy that maybe aspects of community building and onboarding of particular importance to us as a partner in these projects.

00:24:19: So it's our pleasure to contribute in these regards, helping students to not only dive deeply into the study topics, which in these programs can be, for instance, cloud security, cloud computing or also threat intelligence.

00:24:34: And we can remember that delving into topics and getting tasks done is relatively easy and very productive online.

00:24:42: It works really, really well.

00:24:43: And then the question to add is how about community building?

00:24:46: How about feeling connected?

00:24:48: And that's something that is also important to me personally.

00:24:51: And of course, we know it's also for our institution, it's an important question.

00:24:56: So how can we support people to feel at home, to generally have this community spirit and form friendships?

00:25:05: and certainly also rich working relationships that hopefully last beyond the study programs.

00:25:11: Yeah so that leads me to the next question Julia.

00:25:14: So we as a German UDS ensure that students feel a genuine sense of belonging from day one.

00:25:20: So we have some initiatives like Welcome Week, D-College, E-College, research centers, the campus of virtual education, group channels and impact projects.

00:25:32: So maybe you can just give us a short overview about the specific approaches that German UDS use to ensure students feel a genuine sense of belonging from the very first day of their studies.

00:25:44: Exactly, exactly.

00:25:45: And for that reason, it's important for us that our students do not need to delve directly into their subjects but rather they get a chance to delve into socializing and to feel at home first and for that we dedicate the initial period such as the welcome week.

00:26:03: and here the girls are to help participants develop familiarity with the people with the facilities and the procedures.

00:26:12: And so for instance, regarding the people, there are opportunities to meet with the professors.

00:26:18: Everybody is sharing their research interests.

00:26:21: And then very importantly, there are the opportunities to connect with fellow students and not just within your study program, but beyond.

00:26:28: So for this purpose, we use in particular design thinking projects, typically related to subjects that are relevant for the students, such as e-learning experiences, for instance.

00:26:39: And so they work in varying team compositions on the challenges and get to know each other.

00:26:44: And of course, then it's also important to get to know, for instance, the study affairs team, student services.

00:26:51: So whom can you address?

00:26:52: in which contexts?

00:26:54: And then regarding the facilities, it's about the teaching platform.

00:26:57: So you feel safe and you know where you find your records, where you find the places to submit your homework and so forth.

00:27:06: And regarding the procedures, that's straightforwardly in some contexts about the grading system, for instance, academic integrity.

00:27:15: So it could be if I use AI in a homework submission, is that okay?

00:27:18: Is it not okay?

00:27:19: How do I have to do it?

00:27:21: But also the values and the work spirit.

00:27:24: And in our case, it's much about curiosities, appreciation of diverse perspectives, this openness to innovation and mutual support.

00:27:33: So of course the German UDS is a young university, so do we have some student response after the first welcome weeks and do we know something, how we just integrate your expert for design thinking so we can talk about design thinking now, but do you have some first results about the response, the resonance of the students?

00:27:58: Absolutely.

00:27:59: And just maybe starting back with the physical campus, a way to measure appreciation for lectures or educational office is often by feet, I would say.

00:28:10: So if people come to a lecture that is not mandatory, it's their feet that signal, this is really interesting me, I want to be there.

00:28:18: And similarly, in an online setting, it's how many people join and how constantly they join over a week where it's not officially mandatory to be there.

00:28:30: And we've had really great experiences in that regard of people constantly attending and from day one to the last.

00:28:38: So that was really a very nice experience.

00:28:41: And then also what's fascinating and nice to see is the development across that week, which is very fast.

00:28:47: So initially it can be that people are a bit careful and they keep their camera off and they don't speak up.

00:28:55: And then the chat is typically the first way of communicating and then towards the end cameras are opened up and people are mute and they speak and that's a nice sign of how people build trust and feel safe and also continuously develop shared ownership of the sessions.

00:29:15: other observations in that regard.

00:29:17: So for instance when people start using the time before the session officially begins and they talk for instance about what they've had for dinner or what they've had for lunch and that also reflects the different time zones where people are at and just by means of sharing what you've just had the kind of food you just had.

00:29:36: it often also reflects the cultural context that people come from.

00:29:40: So you really get to know each other in a personal way and then when the session begins and people have this ownership of the discussions and everybody is contributing, that's really a very, very positive sign.

00:29:54: Plus, of course, we are asking directly about the experiences, getting very direct positive feedback, particularly also about the design thinking projects as a way to have this interaction and build up familiarity.

00:30:06: That means that we just have interesting opportunities for research at least.

00:30:12: So lots of data.

00:30:14: So I think you as a researcher in this field, I think it's also a challenge now to start with new forms of evaluating such miscommunication structures.

00:30:29: Do you think we just will use different tools or what?

00:30:32: what kind of tools you can use to get data from the students for your research.

00:30:38: So we can of course ask people and we will do so and obviously we will also to the extent that this is permitted also in terms of data protection being in touch with everybody and tracking really how people progress.

00:31:00: In the future, we might also at some point involve physiological measurements, I would hope, to see.

00:31:06: Exactly that was my question because I think this is the challenge for us and I think you named it.

00:31:12: we just have some problems with the data protection and so on and this is a question I just received very often from colleagues and all over the world.

00:31:23: what is the main problem there?

00:31:25: but this is a topic we just can discuss with our colleagues who are responsible for that.

00:31:33: If we just look into the future, so the outlook at least, of course, at the end of a podcast, we just have to talk about the future.

00:31:40: And it's not easy to handle that because looking ahead, the future of online universities life holds tremendous promises.

00:31:48: So in ten years, maybe we anticipate seamless integration between digital and analog words, more natural interactions, affordability for a diverse audience, personalized support via AI.

00:32:00: We didn't discuss about AI.

00:32:01: It's a topic.

00:32:03: with some other colleagues of ours.

00:32:05: And new technologies may allow integration of all human senses and dedicated community experience environments, making online students live richer and more human than ever before.

00:32:15: So my questions, Julia, that's a very big and hard question.

00:32:18: I know that is, if we fast forward ten years, how might students live life and the community experience online differ from today?

00:32:25: What do you think?

00:32:27: To me, that question is both the community life, the experiences coupled with the technology.

00:32:34: So I would also be very keen in exploring how we can redesign the technology to allow for better experiences.

00:32:43: And in that regard, something that stands out to me very strongly is currently the setting of the video conference where it's really just a very minor view that people have, and you look some fifty centimeters, maybe seventy centimeters, and it's always very, very static.

00:33:03: So advancing the technology so that it's at different distances, that it goes around everywhere, not just one very, very limited window.

00:33:12: That would be a first direction that I would find quite important to explore.

00:33:18: And then also we talked about how it can be handled currently, for instance, with talking about food, allowing more of the context that the learner is in, that collaborators are in, to allow more of this context to come into joint experiences and awareness.

00:33:38: And of course, I mean, even from incorporating some of the sound, there are just possibilities to let more factor factor in the chat.

00:33:49: conversation and impression.

00:33:51: And then more affordability would also be great because currently, of course, many people have computers, but still there could be even more fairness in who can afford the necessary technology and also the stable internet to actually participate.

00:34:07: And then individualized support through AI, you've already mentioned that.

00:34:13: And as a psychologist, for instance, I'm aware of the importance of metagognition, that is, knowing how you learn best or knowing how you work best and what is maybe a major risk factor.

00:34:24: and of course AI can be very supportive as we've mentioned data protection but at the request of the user to provide maybe feedback and support in really determining how you work best and get best outcomes and experiences.

00:34:38: and then better integration of all the human senses.

00:34:41: so currently we have this huge bias towards seeing on the screen or hearing via the loudspeaker and there is huge potential to allow for more body motion walking around in the room instead of being tied to your chair.

00:34:57: and also I'd be keen to integrate more of maybe taste and smell or touch.

00:35:04: so in being more versatile and naturalistic in these directions.

00:35:08: and then maybe as a last point to make we've spent I mean we in quotation marks.

00:35:15: we have spent decades in designing technology that is supporting task-focused work so that could be for instance MS which is very good for writing or it could be Excel to have calculations and tables.

00:35:30: But community technology has not yet received such a focus.

00:35:34: So how can we actually have this human touch?

00:35:38: How can we feel close?

00:35:39: How can we have this community experience and spirit?

00:35:43: And also for an online education setting, I think this is very valuable to explore.

00:35:49: Yeah, Julia, I would like to talk to you even hours and hours.

00:35:54: And I'm very happy that you are my colleague at the university and we can talk outside of a podcast.

00:35:59: So thank you very much for all this interesting stuff.

00:36:03: So did we forget some topics, Julia?

00:36:05: Or do you want to add something?

00:36:07: So now it's the last chance to do that.

00:36:11: As you mentioned, it's already been quite quite a bit that we've been pondering today.

00:36:15: So maybe we explore what other podcasts or what other topics we want to focus on in the future, because there can be many.

00:36:24: And then let's invite everybody back.

00:36:27: Oh, yeah.

00:36:27: So Julia, you can be sure that we will have another podcast about different topics.

00:36:32: So that's it for today's episode.

00:36:35: So thank you so much for tuning in.

00:36:38: And a special thing to you, Julia, for sharing such thoughtful insights of communication and community and virtual universities.

00:36:46: So I think we just got an First, overview what is happening in the future and what is happening at the German UDS at least.

00:36:54: So if you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe and spread this podcast, whether the two colleagues, students and fellow digital educators, you will find additional resources, links and readings on the website of the German UDS.

00:37:07: So until next time, stay curious and stay digitally connected.

00:37:13: See you.

00:37:13: Bye.

00:37:13: Bye.

00:37:14: Thanks,

00:37:14: Mike.

00:37:15: Thanks, everybody.

00:37:16: Bye.