Episode 5: Global University Education – Focus South and Central America

00:00:00: [MUSIC]

00:00:13: Welcome to the first episode of From Campus to Cyber,

00:00:16: the official podcast of German University of Digital Science.

00:00:20: I'm your host, Professor Dr. Mike Fritizen,

00:00:22: co-founder of the German UDS.

00:00:24: In this episode, we drill to have Professor Lorenzo,

00:00:28: from the Tech to Monterey University in Mexico,

00:00:33: join us to discuss about the global university education

00:00:36: with focus on South and Central America.

00:00:39: Professor Lorenzo, a leading expert in digital transformation,

00:00:42: will give us an insight into university structures

00:00:45: and developments in South and Central America,

00:00:47: and discuss with us the potential of digital university programs.

00:00:51: We also talk about double degrees and the development prospects

00:00:54: of global cooperation and research and teaching.

00:00:58: So, hello, Professor Lorenzo.

00:01:00: - Mike Fritizen, thank you for having me. - Nice to meet you.

00:01:02: Oh, in German.

00:01:03: [LAUGHTER]

00:01:05: - In the future. - We have to improve your German,

00:01:07: maybe a little bit later.

00:01:09: [LAUGHTER]

00:01:11: Okay, you have had some interesting stages in your academic career,

00:01:15: and please give us a brief overview of your academic highlights

00:01:19: and what they are currently doing professionally in German.

00:01:22: Yeah, I started several years ago, many years, I would say,

00:01:27: I graduated from the National University of Mexico

00:01:32: as a civil engineer, that was my bachelor's,

00:01:35: and I started as a systems engineer at IBM,

00:01:38: that was more than 30 years ago.

00:01:41: After that, I started to deal with education institutions

00:01:45: since the beginning.

00:01:46: So, I had the opportunity to select some solutions

00:01:52: for the university area since the beginning of my career.

00:01:55: I started working with large systems,

00:01:58: with virtual machine systems,

00:02:00: and I was assigned to Pocipsi in New York

00:02:03: to develop some new systems based on the

00:02:06: teleprocessing network simulator

00:02:09: to simulate the workload of large amounts of students

00:02:13: working in a very short capacity of processing

00:02:18: and also of storage.

00:02:20: So, since the beginning, I started to understand

00:02:24: the needs for education in the higher education level.

00:02:27: Then, I went to several positions in IBM,

00:02:31: several managerial positions,

00:02:33: and I get all of my life I was involved in education.

00:02:38: I was assigned of the location manager at the Cuernavaca,

00:02:42: which is a beautiful city near from Mexico.

00:02:47: It's like Pocsidon, near from Berlin, okay?

00:02:51: In that case, IBM used to have

00:02:54: the Latin America Executive Center for Executives.

00:02:58: That center was developed to teach high-level executives

00:03:04: on the use of large systems, solutions, and all that.

00:03:07: So, after that experience, I started to visit

00:03:12: Tecta Monterrey, which has several installations over there.

00:03:16: And I was in love with the institution since the beginning.

00:03:19: Then, I was promoted to new positions

00:03:23: until I get the branch management in the city of Monterrey.

00:03:27: And I was responsible for the public sector

00:03:31: in the area of the northeast part of the country

00:03:35: and of Tecta Monterrey, Universidad de Monterrey,

00:03:38: Universidad Autónoma de la Unión.

00:03:40: The best universities in that part of the country.

00:03:44: And I started to learn that they were changing

00:03:47: the system of education there.

00:03:49: They were moving towards virtual.

00:03:53: And they created what they called

00:03:55: the Virtual University at those years.

00:03:58: I stayed in Monterrey for about five years.

00:04:02: And then I was promoted to create

00:04:05: the education sector of IBM in Mexico.

00:04:09: We got a lot of success.

00:04:10: At that time, personal computers were searching.

00:04:14: The use of personal computers in education.

00:04:17: So I was responsible for the development of that industry.

00:04:21: And then I was promoted again,

00:04:22: but now with the responsibility of Latin America

00:04:26: until I became the general manager of the education sector

00:04:29: for the Latin America region.

00:04:31: And I was responsible for all the countries

00:04:33: in Central America, Mexico, and also from South America.

00:04:38: I was assigned in Brazil, and that was a terrific experience

00:04:42: for me and for my family.

00:04:45: My younger daughter started to speak in Portuguese

00:04:50: before I started speaking Spanish or English.

00:04:54: So it was a change in our life.

00:04:57: And I would say that internationalization,

00:05:00: part of my life, give me a new perspective.

00:05:04: OK.

00:05:04: Lorenzo, you have a lot of experience international.

00:05:07: And so what are the main differences

00:05:09: in the educational system between South Central America

00:05:13: and Germany?

00:05:14: Oh, there are major significant differences.

00:05:19: I would say that the most important significance

00:05:21: that I have recognized in my life

00:05:24: is the approach for students to get involved

00:05:29: with the solution of real problems.

00:05:31: That's your main.

00:05:32: So you have a concept of practical

00:05:34: that you have developed very clear

00:05:37: in all the university systems.

00:05:39: In Latin America, those years, from, I would say,

00:05:44: the last 20 years, we still have the traditional model.

00:05:49: But some institutions have changed.

00:05:52: And in the case of Tec De Monterey,

00:05:55: we developed a new system that is called Tec Ben Tuno, Tec 21.

00:06:02: Tec 21 is a new model.

00:06:04: All the professors who were involved in this effort

00:06:07: redesigned their courses, went to a hybrid model,

00:06:11: part was virtual, part was in real time with real students

00:06:16: in a real classroom.

00:06:17: And we also invited some of the enterprises

00:06:21: that were part of the board of Tec De Monterey

00:06:24: to propose challenges for students

00:06:26: to start dealing with real problems.

00:06:29: So since the first semester, students at Tec De Monterey

00:06:33: today under the Tec 21 model started

00:06:37: to deal with real problems.

00:06:39: So that's a major difference.

00:06:41: And we started this model in 2019.

00:06:45: So we have about five years of experience

00:06:47: into this new environment.

00:06:50: And it's challengeable.

00:06:51: For all sides, you can see it.

00:06:53: It's a challenge for students.

00:06:55: It's a challenge for professors.

00:06:57: And it's also a challenge for the industry partners.

00:07:00: So it's different in the structure of universities,

00:07:03: like your tech university, and for example, the APHI,

00:07:07: or, typically, University of Potsdam, for example.

00:07:10: So what are the main difference?

00:07:12: I would say the research part is still not in the same level.

00:07:18: We do not compete in research.

00:07:21: So some universities are investing a lot in terms

00:07:24: of research, especially in terms of science.

00:07:27: Science and technology still in Latin America

00:07:31: needs to be developed more.

00:07:34: We have had several experiences with international companies

00:07:38: doing joint projects on research.

00:07:40: Small projects, I would say.

00:07:42: But today, in this century, we need to increase that.

00:07:46: We need to come from the teaching and learning

00:07:50: university to the teaching, learning, and research,

00:07:54: and especially applied research to industry.

00:07:58: So that's the major challenge that I

00:08:00: see for the Latin America, the whole university,

00:08:03: is either private or public.

00:08:06: And the next step is, of course,

00:08:08: that's the main part of our German UDS digitalization.

00:08:11: So how do you see the potential of digital university programs

00:08:15: in transforming education, especially

00:08:17: in the South Central America perspective?

00:08:22: I see a great opportunity.

00:08:23: But let me tell you something.

00:08:25: We have an amount of problems that we need to solve first.

00:08:30: The most important problem to solve is the language.

00:08:34: So that's a major challenge.

00:08:36: If we have the opportunity to move to languages and live

00:08:40: hope that with artificial intelligence,

00:08:42: we can be on that stage.

00:08:44: But students need to improve the level of communication

00:08:48: in other languages, especially in English, which

00:08:50: is the language that is more extended.

00:08:54: But yes, that's a barrier that we need to tackle.

00:08:58: For the other hand, I would say--

00:09:00: and this is important to mention--

00:09:02: Latin America people has talent.

00:09:05: A lot of talent.

00:09:07: When you do not have enough resources,

00:09:09: you need to invent.

00:09:11: You need to create new ways of solving problems.

00:09:14: And with a small amount of resources,

00:09:17: solve major complex problems.

00:09:20: So that's the opportunity.

00:09:21: That's what we can help a lot.

00:09:24: What digital initiatives has Detective Monterey

00:09:28: implemented to enhance learning?

00:09:30: Can you give some examples?

00:09:31: What happens there?

00:09:32: Yes.

00:09:33: I mentioned the virtual university creation

00:09:36: that was about 25 years ago.

00:09:38: But then we moved to another model.

00:09:41: What we said is, it's not only the virtual part.

00:09:45: We need to change in the professor's mind

00:09:47: the way they teach.

00:09:49: So we started to develop this Tech 21 model.

00:09:53: And the most important part of the Tech 21 model was,

00:09:57: the student is the center, is the objective,

00:10:01: like Dr. Porter says.

00:10:02: First, you need to choose the right goal.

00:10:04: So the right goal is students to learn and apply what they

00:10:08: learned.

00:10:08: So that's the mission.

00:10:09: That's the objective.

00:10:11: Secondly, you need to differentiate yourself.

00:10:14: You need to offer a value proposal.

00:10:17: The value proposal is learn, yes,

00:10:20: but learn what is relevant to you.

00:10:23: What you decide that is relevant to you

00:10:25: and that you like to do.

00:10:27: So instead of learning things that you don't matter,

00:10:31: learn what you matter.

00:10:33: And then create new ways of delivery solutions,

00:10:38: new ways of solving problems.

00:10:42: So the setting, the implementation

00:10:46: of new techniques for learning, for acquiring knowledge,

00:10:50: for applying knowledge is the major challenge

00:10:53: that you need to move professors all across.

00:10:57: That's the importance of the new model

00:11:00: is concentrate on the student as the objective,

00:11:04: but at the same time, develop your professors

00:11:08: to achieve that objective and enrich the model

00:11:11: with real problems.

00:11:13: So that's, for my point of view, that's

00:11:16: the best we have been doing in the last five years

00:11:20: that we have experienced with the Tech 21 model.

00:11:23: The problem of the Tech 21 model that I see today

00:11:27: is to really select what problems the industry has

00:11:34: in order to be solved and are interesting to professors

00:11:39: and to students.

00:11:40: And sometimes, professors don't like the challenges.

00:11:43: So we need to tackle a little bit into that.

00:11:46: We need to work on that.

00:11:47: Can you paint out-- I've paid out some impacts

00:11:49: of student engagement and learning outcomes

00:11:53: in this program?

00:11:54: Oh, yes.

00:11:54: Did you all measure that?

00:11:55: Yeah, absolutely.

00:11:57: Well, for example, on the first phase of the model,

00:12:01: describe what you should learn that you at least

00:12:04: should have in your mind to be on context.

00:12:09: Then you select an area of specialization.

00:12:12: And then you apply those concepts from the basic learning

00:12:17: with a specific knowledge of the area of specialization

00:12:22: that you select.

00:12:23: And then apply that as a third phase.

00:12:25: Apply that to the industry.

00:12:27: So that part, I would say, is the most important one.

00:12:31: And in order to ensure that you graduate with those concepts

00:12:38: with that level of knowledge, with that level

00:12:40: of competitive knowledge, now we need to test, to check.

00:12:46: And the final semester, what we do

00:12:48: is to create an integration block that

00:12:51: handles what you should know, what you should apply,

00:12:55: how you solve problems, and how you deliver the solution

00:12:59: to the ones that need your solution.

00:13:01: So that's the integration model that we

00:13:03: do at the end of the program.

00:13:06: So one point is to bring together different areas

00:13:10: is that universities collaborate.

00:13:13: So for example, in this way of double degrees.

00:13:15: So can you explain the concept of double degrees

00:13:18: and the benefits for students?

00:13:20: Yes.

00:13:21: That's another great example.

00:13:24: The double degree programs, I would say,

00:13:27: complement each other.

00:13:29: So take the best from the best.

00:13:33: In some cases, what we have is very good professors

00:13:36: in some subjects, or challenges that nobody has

00:13:40: solved ever.

00:13:42: But there is knowledge somewhere in the world,

00:13:44: somewhere in the virtual areas.

00:13:50: Now, if you have the knowledge that is not in your university,

00:13:55: and you can complement the knowledge you create

00:13:58: in your university, and complement

00:14:01: with the knowledge of the best universities around you,

00:14:04: that's a major benefit for students

00:14:07: and for the development of professors.

00:14:10: That's right.

00:14:11: That's interesting.

00:14:12: And what are some successful examples of global cooperation

00:14:16: and research and teaching that you have been involved?

00:14:19: Do you have some examples?

00:14:21: Yes, of course.

00:14:23: Remember that I started in education many years ago.

00:14:26: I started with basic education, K-12.

00:14:29: But from that, what I mean is public education

00:14:32: is different from private education in the case

00:14:34: of Latin America, and in many underdeveloped

00:14:37: developed countries.

00:14:39: So what we need is to equalize as much as possible,

00:14:44: to give knowledge to those that can have the tools.

00:14:47: So we need to do that.

00:14:48: We need to train the professors.

00:14:50: And we started creative projects all across Latin America,

00:14:54: in the case of Mexico, in the case of Costa Rica,

00:14:57: in the case of Colombia, in the case of Argentina,

00:15:00: in the case of Chile, and in the case of Brazil.

00:15:04: Basic education.

00:15:05: And we started a beautiful project for children

00:15:08: to collaborate between all of these countries, all

00:15:11: of these regions, and to become familiar with the use

00:15:14: of technologies.

00:15:15: That was about 20 years ago.

00:15:18: And we created projects like the beautiful project of El

00:15:22: Haces in Chile, with President Preet.

00:15:25: We created the Acorda Brasil, in the case of Brazil,

00:15:28: with President Cardoso.

00:15:30: We create the program of genesis in Costa Rica with President Arias.

00:15:36: In those projects, we took the model that was developed at MIT, where students were

00:15:45: the responsible to acquire knowledge, and then to share that knowledge using some tools,

00:15:52: of course digital tools.

00:15:54: But do not make a complex model.

00:15:59: Do it easy, because professors in basic education do not have the knowledge.

00:16:04: So you need to do it very easy and familiar to the professor and interesting for students.

00:16:10: And it was a major success.

00:16:12: Then I moved to higher education.

00:16:15: And now, in the case of Brazil, for example, I created a new way of collaborating between

00:16:22: universities.

00:16:24: You do not have all the resources you need when you are in a university.

00:16:27: You need more than you have.

00:16:28: And if you go to research, you need much more than what you have and what you get.

00:16:33: In this case, we selected several universities with a certain level of infrastructure.

00:16:40: We create a network to share capacity of computing, capacity of storage, and the knowledge of the

00:16:48: professors there.

00:16:49: And if you were any researcher anywhere in Brazil, you can connect the concept is named

00:16:55: CENAPAD, Centro Nacional de Procesamiento Acelerado de Datos.

00:17:01: And the CENAPAD creates a system, which is CENAPAD, the system of a high level of performance

00:17:09: computing for researchers.

00:17:12: Those projects, the ones in basic education, the ones in higher education, help me to create

00:17:18: two centers.

00:17:19: One in Brazil, that was called the Higher Education and Research Center.

00:17:22: And the other one was the Latin American Basic Education Center in Mexico.

00:17:31: So we have like two areas where we invited professors to work with technology to show

00:17:38: what they were doing and to share with others.

00:17:41: And at the end, the IBM Corporation decided to create what they call a transformation

00:17:48: in education.

00:17:49: And that was a concept very important because all the money of IBM for that kind of project

00:17:55: was accumulated, it just went back and they share that to the world.

00:18:01: And those were the golden years of IBM in education.

00:18:06: And then I was invited to work for SAP.

00:18:10: And then I met HPI.

00:18:11: And that's why I'm here.

00:18:14: Lorenzo, that sounds like a good base for the future.

00:18:20: So what is the future prospect in the URIs for the expanding global educational partnership?

00:18:26: Yes.

00:18:27: So what are the steps to do in the next 10 years for this area of expansion?

00:18:31: The most important one is the opportunity to redesign how you teach and how you learn.

00:18:38: That's a major opportunity to develop new programs.

00:18:42: Today, the old programs, the traditional programs, are not interested for anyone, even for the

00:18:48: professors.

00:18:49: So we need new challenges.

00:18:51: So design what you are going to do, select and design how you are going to do it and

00:18:58: then create a assumptions with others, others that are thinking on the same track that you

00:19:04: are thinking.

00:19:05: And some of that knowledge into one offering, that's opportunity.

00:19:11: So what you will have at the end is you solve real industry problems with the best talents

00:19:18: around you.

00:19:19: This new model should be flexible, attractive, engaging for students and challengeable for

00:19:29: industries.

00:19:30: They need to keep interested.

00:19:32: And you need to decide tangible results, tangible solutions to those problems.

00:19:41: We need to use the digital tools that we have at our reach today and on the future.

00:19:48: Recently Apple announced the new lenses and I would say that virtual reality in education

00:19:54: will help a lot for the future.

00:19:56: You pointed out some of the aspects.

00:19:59: What are the key technological and infrastructural requirements we need for the university?

00:20:05: Yeah, there are two major strengths that we need to enhance for one hand and for their

00:20:12: hand to develop more.

00:20:15: Capacity of communications.

00:20:17: So communications is very important in the new world, in the virtual world.

00:20:22: So communications is a major challenge to be solved in terms of as it is needed.

00:20:31: The area of getting connected is when you want to be connected, nor when the system is ready

00:20:37: for you.

00:20:38: No, when you are ready for the system.

00:20:41: So the capacity of connection should be as much as possible, as large as possible in

00:20:48: terms of broadband and interactive, very interactive.

00:20:53: You do not be concerned, you should not be concerned about, you know what happened?

00:20:59: No.

00:21:00: The system flanks and then you lose what you are doing or you lose interest or something

00:21:07: happened or the delay time is very high.

00:21:11: That cannot be.

00:21:12: You need to be in a world that is functioning.

00:21:16: Like in Germany, it functions.

00:21:19: So if it functions here, it should function all around the world.

00:21:22: So communications.

00:21:23: One.

00:21:24: Second, the new tools.

00:21:28: Communication intelligence, deep learning.

00:21:32: The way you provide new methodologies of education for using those in terms of how to better

00:21:38: learn, how to better teach.

00:21:40: So those are opportunities in terms of infrastructure.

00:21:43: I think that we have that in the case of Germany.

00:21:46: We have the basic infrastructure to do that.

00:21:50: We just need to produce the contents, the best contents that we can in order to have

00:21:56: students from the best parts of all the world, the best students, the best professors.

00:22:02: So let's summarize your idea of W.G.E.s and collaboration.

00:22:07: What is the main success of collaboration, for example, between the German universities

00:22:15: and the South America universities?

00:22:18: So what is the point out of the success?

00:22:21: I would say two things.

00:22:24: Very important.

00:22:25: In the case of basic education, we have in Latin America, in many countries, German

00:22:31: schools.

00:22:34: I think that the model they use is excellent, I would say.

00:22:41: You start playing.

00:22:43: You start using plays to learn.

00:22:47: And then you start dominating the concepts.

00:22:50: And then you build.

00:22:52: And then you apply outside.

00:22:54: That's a major intelligent model that I believe we have.

00:22:59: So that connection in basic education is basic.

00:23:02: And the Alexander von Humboldt Association is doing marvelous things.

00:23:07: So I think that's a model to follow.

00:23:10: In the case of higher education, I think that what we did between Techland and the Ray and

00:23:15: HPI is very important.

00:23:18: We said, "You have knowledge that I don't have, and I have talent that I do not have

00:23:24: today, and we want to have it better prepared."

00:23:27: So let's share students, and we have several students now at HPI, doing the master, doing

00:23:33: the PhD myself as a guest professor.

00:23:37: And we are learning what you do.

00:23:40: Today, after almost two years here, I feel very well connected to the system.

00:23:47: I am teaching a class, the digital health care systems.

00:23:51: And I think I'm applying what I have in my mind with students that come from all around

00:23:58: the world.

00:23:59: I have students from Asia, I have students from Africa, I have students from Europe,

00:24:02: of course, I have a student from Germany, and I have a student from Latin America.

00:24:07: So when you mix them and you create the challenges to produce projects, you see technologies,

00:24:14: you see that's a major contribution to the formation of these people.

00:24:19: And if we can have it, not for 20 or 24 students, no, no, no, for the world, whenever they

00:24:26: want, whatever they want.

00:24:27: Based on your experiences, Lorenzo, in this global educational system, what advice would

00:24:34: you give to other universities looking to enhance their digital programs and global

00:24:39: collaboration efforts?

00:24:41: I think we need to select the ones that want to work with us.

00:24:49: And I have to find several by now in the case of Mexico.

00:24:54: What I did is, we charge universities that if I try to tell them what the German digital

00:25:02: university of digital science wants to do with your students, and they buy the concept,

00:25:10: I would think that's an important partner, that's a potential partner.

00:25:15: Now, the quality of the university is in the level of quality, of competitiveness, that

00:25:21: you can say the students you graduate are very good, now they are going to be very good

00:25:27: plus or excellent.

00:25:31: In the areas they domain, they're in their university, but now with new knowledge, with

00:25:36: digital knowledge, with learning how to do it, the digital transformation program is

00:25:42: very important.

00:25:43: The digital technologies are very important, so imagine in the future, students that graduate

00:25:50: from the area of knowledge plus the knowledge of new digital tools, plus the knowledge how

00:25:57: to apply them to solve real problems, so that will be the major impact.

00:26:01: Now we listen to something here in our building, because they are just still working, but

00:26:07: that's typical for the start-up scene here.

00:26:10: Your universe always works.

00:26:12: Always, yes, and just giving us some problems here for our production.

00:26:17: But Lorenzo, one point, or one interesting topic is lifelong learning.

00:26:25: How can we integrate lifelong learning in our systems, in our society, in our educational

00:26:30: system?

00:26:31: Yes, today you never stop learning, and because there are new ways of doing things and new

00:26:38: technologies to do them, I think all the people that are in the professional competitive

00:26:44: environment needs to be updated all the time.

00:26:49: So that's a problem.

00:26:51: Now the solution, I think that with the virtual and the digital opportunities to access that

00:26:58: knowledge, but look, in the frequency and in the intensity that you decide, you as a student,

00:27:08: you decide how much hours I will dedicate to these new concepts, how frequent I'm going

00:27:13: to do it.

00:27:14: And then if I do it correctly, what do I earn?

00:27:19: So the model that we have at the German Digital University, I think is important.

00:27:27: We are offering specific areas of knowledge that can even certify that knowledge, and

00:27:38: you gain credits for that.

00:27:40: And if you accumulate the number of credits that are needed to give you a grade, we give

00:27:45: you the grade.

00:27:46: So that's the intensity and the frequency is decided by you.

00:27:50: So I think that's the best we can do in those terms.

00:27:55: If you just think about the German UDS, so you have some impressions about the German

00:27:59: UDS, you're part of the German UDS in the future.

00:28:02: So what do you think, or how do you see the German UDS in five years, for example?

00:28:08: Well, look, in our case, we are starting with three universities in Mexico, three.

00:28:16: They are the best.

00:28:18: We expect to have like 20 to 25 students in the next three years.

00:28:23: We are starting.

00:28:24: We are starting with the first five universities in Mexico, and then we are starting with the

00:28:31: second one, which is the first five universities in Mexico.

00:28:35: We are starting with the first five universities in Mexico, and then we are starting with the

00:28:42: first five universities in Mexico.

00:28:45: So we are starting with the first five universities in Mexico, and then we are starting with the

00:28:56: second one, which is the first five universities in Mexico.

00:29:01: So we are starting with the first five universities in Mexico, and then we are starting with the

00:29:09: second one, at any time.

00:29:12: You know what I'm also learning here?

00:29:14: I work like 12 hours a day, some hours for Germany, and other hours because of the difference

00:29:22: with Mexico and with other countries in Latin America.

00:29:25: So what I see is my growth of Coberach is growing.

00:29:31: My broadband is growing, and I can do more for more in the amount of time that I can deal

00:29:38: with.

00:29:39: So that's a major contribution, I would say.

00:29:44: I learned that, and I think that if you go 24 hours a day from all across the wall, seven

00:29:52: days a week, and students can connect whenever they want, whatever they want, the moment they

00:29:59: feel interested in doing it, that will do the best of knowledge because you are learning

00:30:06: what you want.

00:30:07: And in terms of five years from now, I see this growing by an important explanation.

00:30:16: Great way, yeah.

00:30:18: Sounds good, Arlene.

00:30:20: Yeah.

00:30:21: It was a great pleasure talking to you.

00:30:23: Time goes so fast.

00:30:24: Thank you very much for being here and talking to us about this, I think, growing part of

00:30:32: collaboration worldwide, and thanks a lot.

00:30:37: Thank you for having me, it was my pleasure.

00:30:39: Thank you.

00:30:40: Thank you.

00:30:50: Thank you.